When GOD and LAW don't square!

When God and the Law Don’t Square.
_____________________
GOOD MORNING FLINT ! Early edition
_____________________
Date 2/18/08 By Terry Bankert
http://attorneybankert.com/
Posted full article first to Flint Talk THEN summarized, for discussion, at:
http://flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?p=25070#25070
Full article at Google blog Good Morning Flint!
http://goodmorningflint.blogspot.com/ with citations.

When God and the Law Don’t Square .[TNYT]

With the increased number of foreign born we see in Genesee County Family Court how cultures and our laws clash. Most often in custody disputes.[trb]

(THE)Discussion on how to reconcile differing cultures and religions is, indeed, a sensitive issue, and one that needs to be addressed.[Z]

My daily bloggs , as here, are often just my curiosity peaked by what I see in the news. Here the question: Is there room for religious doctrine in Family Court, specifically Muslim. I look for 4 sources and spend no more than 2 hours. I hope you find it interesting, I learned .[trb]

A PRETTY good way to generate an outcry, as the archbishop of Canterbury learned in Britain recently, is to say that a Western legal system should make room for Shariah, or Islamic law. When the archbishop, spiritual leader of the world’s 80 million Anglicans, commented in a radio interview that such an accommodation was "unavoidable," critics conjured images of stonings and maimings, overwhelming his more modest point. [TNYT]

Remarks made about the introduction of Shariah -- a strict form of Muslim law -- by England's Anglican leader, Archbishop Rowan Williams, sparked off a storm of criticism. His comments, made in the form of a speech and a separate interview with the BBC, caused such a hostile reaction that they had to be clarified in a subsequent declaration, and in another speech.[Z]

Sharia
Arabic: ش?ر?ي?ع?ة? transliteration: Šar§i`ah, is the body of Islamic religious law. The term means "way" or "path to the water source"; it is the legal framework within which the public and some private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on Islamic principles of jurisprudence and for Muslims living outside the domain. Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.
There is no strictly static codified set of laws of sharia. Sharia is more of a system of how law ought to serve humanity, a consensus of the unified spirit. Based on the Qur'an (the religious text of Islam), hadith (sayings and doings of Muhammad), (sayings and doings of the early followers of Muhammad), ijma (consensus), qiyas (analogy) and centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent.
SEE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

DIVORCE JUDGEMENTS AND RELIGIOUS TRIBUNALS

The archbishop,the most Rev Rowan Williams did not propose importing Shariah into the criminal law and was referring mostly to divorces in which both sides have agreed to abide by the judgment of a religious tribunal. His proposal was groundbreaking only in extending to Islamic tribunals in Britain a role that Jewish and Christian ones have long played in the judicial systems of secular societies. Courts in the United States have endorsed all three kinds of tribunals.[TNYT]

The speech, also given on Feb. 7, was titled "Civil and Religious Law in England: a Religious Perspective," the first in a series of lectures on Islam and English law at the Royal Courts of Justice. In his address Archbishop Williams questioned the assumption that all citizens should be "under the rule of the uniform law of a sovereign state."[Z]

Anyone who heard the actual words would be aware he was referring to the fact that Muslims who have a dispute involving the moral law as it applies to them and consult a cleric of their faith expect the cleric to be guided by Sharia law.[TNE]

BRITIAN

"Certain provisions of Shariah are already recognized in our society and under our law, so it's not as if we're bringing in an alien and rival system," the archbishop said in a speech and a television interview.[WT]

UNITED STATES

"The law of the United States should not "make room for sharia," any more than it should for any other religion. But I can understand why the Archbishop of Canterbury was shocked by the reactions to his lecture from the British Prime Minister and many commentators. Their remarks cause me to wonder if they read his statement in its entirety."[wp]

"My understanding is that Muslims in Great Britain have not entered into British civil society as much as most Muslims have in the United States. In America we have separation of religion and government, but Britain has an established religion, the Church of England. I do not in any way want to imply that Muslims in this country are not as faithful in practicing their religion as are their fellow believers in other parts of the world. I am not aware, however, of any outcry by American Muslims to be allowed to live under sharia law." [wp]

BRITAN HAS RELIGIOUS COURTS AND THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND

There are about a dozen Sharia courts in Britain -- although they have no formal legal status -- and are mainly used to resolve family disputes.[AL]

The biggest is the Islamic Sharia Council in Leyton, east London. Since it was set up in 1982, it has dealt with 7,000 divorce cases in accordance with Quranic values.[AL]

"We act as a religious court, which means deciding about their dispute and giving them written determination, based on Sharia, Islamic principles and jurisprudence," one of its founders, Mufti Barkatullah, told AFP.[AL]

THERE ARE STATE COURTS IN THE UNITED STATES THAT ACCOMODATE RELIGION
TEXAS ISLAMIC COURT

In 2003, for instance, a Texas appeals court referred a divorce case to a local tribunal called the Texas Islamic Court. [TNYT]

INSTITUTE OF CHRISTIAN EDUCATION

In 2005, the federal appeals court in New Orleans affirmed an award in an employment arbitration by the Institute for Christian Conciliation, which uses Biblical teachings to settle disputes. [TNYT]

BET DIN

And state courts routinely enforce the decisions made by a Jewish court, known as a bet din, in commercial and family law cases.[TNYT]

ISLAMIC ATTITUDES TOWARD WOMEN

The outcry in Britain was apparently something of a visceral reaction to aspects of Islamic law, though the archbishop himself condemned what he called the inhumanity of "extreme punishments" and some Islamic countries’ "attitudes toward women."[TNYT]

In his lecture the archbishop of Canterbury called for a reflection on how we deal with conflicts between civil law and diverging cultures and religious beliefs. He mentioned, for example, the question of conscientious objection to performing abortion, and the matter of Catholic adoption agencies being forced to assign children to homosexual couples.[Z]

SHOULD AMERICAN FAMILY COURT DEFER TO RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS?

The larger question, legal experts in the United States said, is whether government courts should ever defer to religious ones. The answer may depend on whether the people involved authentically consented to religious adjudication, whether they are allowed to change their minds and whether the decisions of those tribunals are offensive to fundamental conceptions of justice.[TNYT]

CHRISTIANITY has in the past been the equal of the worst aspects of Sharia fundamentalists. In medieval times, punishments for law-breakers were horrendous. Burnings, branding, floggings, etc, all were common and nightmarish during any of the periods of Inquisition.[TNE]

According to Sharia law, the right to divorce is incumbent first on the man. A civil divorce as such is only automatically validated in Islamic law if the man has sought it or given his consent. If not, the woman can begin divorce proceedings or Khula with the council.[AL]

The scholars will then look to either get the husband's consent, reconcile the couple or grant the woman the talaq at their discretion if the husband does not turn up in person or is clearly in the wrong.[AL]

CUTTING EDGE OF FAMILY LAW AND RELIGIOUS LIBERTY

All of that, said John Witte Jr., a law professor at Emory University, "is the big frontier question for religious liberty."[TNYT]

The archbishop speaks in sonorous circumlocutions and he was not a model of clarity when he was interviewed by BBC radio on Feb. 7. Even his followers had a hard time untangling just what he meant.[TNYT]

"In doing so the archbishop was not suggesting the introduction of parallel legal jurisdictions, but exploring ways in which reasonable accommodation might be made within existing arrangements for religious conscience," the declaration continued.[Z]

"I’m an Episcopalian," said Janice A. Schattman, the lawyer in the Texas case who persuaded the appeals court to defer to the Islamic one. "Rowan Williams, bless his heart, can be quite obscure."[TNYT]

THE PARTIES SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO STIPULATE TO A RELIGIOUS COURT?

But the archbishop’s central point seemed to be that people should be able to agree to have family law cases resolved by religious courts if all concerned agree. By Monday the archbishop was backtracking, saying he had spoken clumsily with "a misleading choice of words." [TNYT]

Azizah Y. al-Hibri, the president of Karamah, an international lawyers’ group based in Washington and made up of Muslim women, said she applauded the archbishop’s initial position [TNYT].

hs

SHOULD THERE BE DIFFERENT STANDARDS FOR DIFFERNET RELIGIONS IN FAMILY COURT?

"Muslims, Christians and Jews should all deal with their own family law issues in their own arbitration councils," she said. "The government should stay out of the bedroom." [TNYT]

The quest for common ground between people of different faiths, and between faith-based moral principles and the ethics of secular humanism, can only be beneficial for social cohesion and peaceful coexistence.[TNE]

COMMUNITY TENSION IN MUSLIM NEIGHBORHOODS IN BRITIAN - NO GO AREAS

Tension between some aspects of Islam and English society has, in fact, been very much present in recent times. On Jan. 6 the Anglican Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali of Rochester published an article in the Sunday Telegraph warning that Islamic extremists have created "no-go" areas in Britain where it is too dangerous for non-Muslims to enter.[Z]

THERE IS A ROLE FOR RELIGIOUS COURTS.

The Archbishop points out that if the law of the land takes no account of what is for certain people a "proper rationale for behavior" it falls short of "communicating" with someone involved in the legal process. But if the legal system should protect individuals on grounds of their corporate religious identity, perhaps in some manner of delegating certain legal functions to the religious court of a community a number of queries or objections arise. The Archbishop discussed three such objections, not the least of which was that in some areas, especially family law, recognition of some "supplementary jurisdiction" could reinforce some of the most repressive elements in the society, particularly concerning the role and liberties of women.[WP]

"Attempts have been made to impose an 'Islamic' character on certain areas, for example, by insisting on artificial amplification for the Adhan, the call to prayer," he also noted.[Z]

CANADIAN RESPONSE , NO!

That notion has met resistance where Islam is involved. After the authorities in Ontario raised the possibility that arbitrators might use Shariah to settle family disputes, formal recognition of all religious arbitrations there, including existing Catholic and Jewish ones, was withdrawn. [TNYT]

"There will be one law for all Ontarians," Dalton McGuinty, the province’s premier, said in 2005. [TNYT]

SHOULD RELIGION AFFECT PUNISHMENT IN CRIMINAL CASES ,NO!

Almost no one suggests that criminal law should take into account the defendant’s religion in meting out punishment. At the other extreme, few people object to allowing purely commercial disputes between sophisticated businesspeople to be adjudicated through private arbitrations. The hard questions, as the archbishop learned, arise in the area of family law, where the agreement to arbitrate may be uninformed or obtained by duress. State courts have occasionally refused to enforce separation agreements reached through bet din arbitrations on the ground that the woman involved had been pressured into participating.[TNYT]

PEOPLE CHANGE RELIGIONS ,WE WANT FINALITY IN FAMILY LAW JUDGEMENTS.

Once consent is given, moreover, questions arise about whether and when it may be withdrawn. "People have a right in Western systems to change religions," said Douglas Laycock, a law professor at the University of Michigan. "Can they opt out after the dispute arises or after the judgment is given?"[TNYT]

RELIGIOUS COURTS AND CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS WHEN IN CONFLICT WHICH ONE TO LOOK TOWARDS?

Most fundamentally, some judgments from religious tribunals may be at odds with constitutional protections, human rights and basic notions of fairness.[TNYT]

In an article to be published shortly in The Washington and Lee Law Review, Robin Fretwell Wilson, a law professor at Washington and Lee University, wrote that Muslim women who decide to seek a divorce can face harsh financial consequences under Islamic law. "Threatened with the prospect of certain poverty," she wrote, "some women will surely be forced to stay in an abusive relationship."[TNYT]

Professor Wilson said in an interview that government courts should refuse to enforce any ruling from a religious tribunal that leaves a woman worse off than she would have been in a conventional divorce.[TNYT]

"Society has a stake in the outcome," she said. "Some religions are tilted against women."[TNYT]

PARTY AGREES TO ARBITRATE BY ISLAMIC RULES , ITS ENFORCEABLE.

In the Texas case, however, it was a woman, Rola Qaddura, who sought arbitration in a dispute over a dowry and the distribution of assets after a divorce. The parties had signed an agreement to arbitrate their case "according to the Islamic rules of law by Texas Islamic Court" in Richardson.[TNYT]

The appeals court said the agreement was valid. Ms. Schattman, who represented Ms. Qaddura, said the appeals court’s ruling was proper and unexceptional. "An agreement to arbitrate is an agreement to arbitrate," she said. [TNYT]

In the end, though, the parties could not agree on a panel of arbitrators and the effort collapsed, Ms. Schattman added, saying of the Islamic court: "It was kind of a new thing."[TNYT]


"You can't simply get of the plane, take off your coat and abandon all your law and culture at the same time. There is sometimes a difficulty in knowing which law to follow. [abc]

Posted here by
Terry Bankert
http://attorneybankert.com/

—where did this come from---

[TNYT]
The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/weekinreview/17liptak.html?ref=world

[TNE]]
The Northern Echo
http://www.thisisthenortheast.co.uk/mostpopular.var.2046957.mostcommented.sharia_law.php

[Z]
ZENIT
http://www.zenit.org/article-21799?l=english

[WP]
The Washington Post
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/jane_holmes_dixon/2008/02/law_must_uphold_rights_not_the.html

[WT]
The Washington Times
http://washingtontimes.com/article/20080214/FOREIGN/164497040/1003/FOREIGN

[AL]
The Al Arabiya News Channel
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/02/17/45756.html

[ABC]
ABC NEWS
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/08/2157733.htm

[TRB]
Comments of Terry Bankert
http://attorneybankert.com/

Posted here by
Terry Bankert
http://attorneybankert.com/

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KILDEE'S: Turf war divides Local Democratic Party!

KILDEE’S TURF WAR DIVIDES THE LOCAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY...NOT..
__________
Good Morning Flint
by Terry Bankert
http://attorneybankert.com/
02/17/08
Full article at: http://goodmorningflint.blogspot.com/
Summary posted to Flint Talk at:
http://www.flinttalk.com/
__________

THE RISE AGAIN OF THE DEAD RABBITS!

The contest for the Democratic presidential nomination between Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton, a white woman, and Barack Obama, a black man, has scrambled 21st century identity politics, producing startling turns in an election that, whatever its outcome, will make history.[SFG]

Hillary Clinton has come a long way from inevitability - and now experts see her as a presidential long shot. [DN]

A Daily News survey of party insiders, seasoned political consultants and academic experts give Clinton slim chances of defeating Barack Obama.[DN]

SUPER DELEGATE DALE KILDEE CONTINUES TO BACK FAILING ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE CLINTON.

Pretty much everyone expects some or all of Michigan's delegates to be seated at this summer's Democratic presidential nominating convention in Denver.[Freep]

Clinton's saving grace may well be the inroads she's made with superdelegates, the party insiders and politicians who can steer the direction of the nominating convention.[DN]

Don Kettl of the University of Pennsylvania said an edgy electorate, tired of war and partisanship, wants a leader who elevates the tone - and Clinton hasn't been able to make the sale.
[DN]

A 6-year-old Dan Kildee looked up to his uncle Dale when he was elected to the state Legislature. [FJ]

One would hope a grown man would be taller that a 6 yr old.[trb]

Dan Kildee later followed his uncle into a career in politics, worked on his uncle's campaigns to serve in the state Senate and Congress and calls the elder Kildee a great role model and friend.[FJ]

Regular employment would have slowed the dynastic rise.[trb]

But that doesn't mean they always agree. [FJ]

First blood has been drawn.[trb]

As Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama battle in a tight race for the Democratic presidential nomination, the Kildees have taken different sides. [FJ]

Some could say (me) that the Kildees are laying off their bets so that a Kildee ends up on the winning side. Mabey the Kildees sensed that they would be on the losing side again like in the 2007 Flint Race for Mayor?[trb]

However, "in the early trial heats against McCain, Obama does better. The superdelegates are very concerned about these negatives," Schmidt said.[dn]

SUPERDELGATE DALE AGAINST COMMON MAN DAN!

Dismissed as a meaningless beauty pageant and ignored for campaigning by all the top Democrats, Michigan's Jan. 15 primary seems to be gaining influence because one of those Democrats, Hillary Clinton, didn't take her name off the Democratic ballot and, consequently, easily won the uncontested race.[FREEP]

But it was after Bill Clinton injected race into the South Carolina primary last month that African Americans, one of the Democratic Party's most important voting blocs, abandoned his wife's candidacy in droves.[SFG]

Genesee County Treasurer Dan Kildee, 49, backs Obama, while U.S. Rep. Dale E. Kildee, D-Flint, 78, has endorsed the more established politician, Clinton. [FJ]

"Clinton's negatives are so high and Obama's positives so high, especially on the question '[Who] will unite or divide the country?'" said Steffen Schmidt of Iowa State University, who gives Clinton a 29.9% chance of pulling it off. [DN]

Now, from political pundits to the candidates themselves, everyone is talking about Michigan -- and Florida -- as a razor-thin margin separates Clinton and Barack Obama[FREEP]

Remember the song. Battle lines being drawns, nobodys right and nobody’s wrong...[trb]
He argued that the wheels started coming off in South Carolina - and the former President's involvement is to blame.[DN]

The split in Genesee County's prominent Democratic family could reflect what's happening on a national level - a perceived generational gap between Clinton and Obama supporters. [FJ]

Reflect or driven by a well positioned organization plays both sides. Any win is their win.[trb]

Political strategist Joe Trippi, John Edwards' former top aide, gives Clinton less than a 50% chance of winning. "The likeliest scenario is for Obama to continue to rack up more delegates than she does," he said.[DN]

THE REAL BATTLE IS SHOULD THE MICHIGAN DELGATION ,WHICH INCLUDES HIS UNCLE ,BE SEATED?

Now, Clinton wants the delegates to be seated -- she won in Michigan and in Florida, where all the candidates were on the ballot -- and it could erase Obama's advantage in delegates; Obama, on the other hand, says he sees a role for both states only if it's done "without skewing the delegate count."[FREEP]

Where are you on this issue Dan?[trb]

THE DEMOCRATIC ESTABLISHMENT IS FOR CLINTON AND AGAINST OBAMA.

Former Michigan Gov. Jim Blanchard, who cochairs Clinton's campaign in the state, said the primary results should be certified because Obama had a chance to compete and didn't.[FREEP]

Boy, Dan Kildee now anti establishment! I just love politics.[trb]

Watch our Dan here is another big shot siding with your uncle.[trb]

"I think the DNC is going to look at all the options, that you cannot disenfranchise the people who've already voted," said Gov. Jennifer Granholm. "The bottom line is Michigan's delegates will be seated."[freep]

"The Democrats always say it's within the family, and in my case, it actually is," Dan Kildee said with a laugh. "My uncle is my favorite political leader in America, and that won't change." [FJ]

Are ye fer me or are ye again me? Dan we are fe ya! Your verbal kiss on the cheek of you uncle says its not personal its just business. I tried to call my uncle to tell him that I am following Dans crew and going to the mattress. I could not reach him but he’s a Mccain man anyways.[trb]

A senior party official pegged her chance of winning at 25% - "Unless she wins Ohio and Texas, I don't see how this goes to the convention."[DN]

Across the country, some polls indicate Obama winning over the under-50 crowd while Clinton does better with older voters. [FJ]

I know whose desk these polls are sitting on.[trb]

Both Kildees, who were born on the same street in an east Flint neighborhood nearly 30 years apart, praise Clinton and Obama. [FJ]

Its like a present day Gangs of New York. That makes Dan head of the Dead Rabbitts, Dale heads the aging natives.[trb]

"I think both candidates, in terms of their ideology and ability to govern, would do well for this country," Dan Kildee said. [FJ]

Lets not offend anybody.[trb]

"I think Sen. Obama represents a sort of new optimism in American politics, which I think has very much been lacking over the last decade. This campaign has become a bit of a movement. To me, that's what the Democratic party needs." [FJ]

More of a tidal wave. When one comes, get infront and on high ground.[trb]

In the beginning "Obama's support, by contrast, was concentrated among the young, the prosperous and the highly educated. It was predominantly male and white. It was the base of former Democratic candidates Howard Dean, Gary Hart and Bill Bradley, Bositis said, "that would always lose."[SFG}

He also believes Obama, who has a diverse, multicultural background that includes living overseas, can help mend international relations. [FJ]

Bingo..imagine how this will change our image to the world.We need to improve our tarnished image cause by this president and this congress.[trb]

"In a matter of months with Barack Obama, we've seen white men support a black man for president," said James Taylor, a race and American politics scholar at the University of San Francisco. "We've seen the country's most pro-black president try to manipulate race against a black candidate. These are some transformational things that are happening in Obama himself. For those who support him, he represents an opportunity to deal with race in an unconventional way."[SFG]

Meanwhile, the elder Kildee strongly supports the woman he met before she was the first lady and before he even met her husband and future president. [FJ]

The editor has ,please note, not started by calling Obama a black man but begins by calling the
Senator a woman![trb]

Obama's novelty is not that he is the first black candidate for president, but the first black candidate who is not running as a black candidate. Obama has scrupulously avoided racial stereotyping, yet his race is an obvious element of his appeal that no rival can match. [SFG]

Thanks to the fast-growing Latino vote, many analysts believe 2008 will be the year when a presidential election will be decided for the first time by minorities. Some contend that milestone was already passed when President Bush drew more than 40 percent of Latino voters in 2004, providing his victory margins in closely contested Southwestern states.[SFG]

In the late 1970s and early '80s, the Congressman met with Clinton several times because both were involved with the Children's Defense Fund. [FJ]

Dale Kildee, a former teacher, worked with Clinton on issues they were most passionate about, such
as education,
child care
and healthcare. [FJ]

Too bad protecting our industrial base from foreign competition was not one of those priorities.[trb]

"We share many priorities," he
said. "I certainly have enormous respect for Barack Obama, and I think we have two great candidates out there. [FJ

Lets not offend anybody.[trb]

"But when you've worked with someone in the past on matters of common concerns, that does play a role." [FJ]

Does that make social relationships more important than policy positions?[trb]

Her record shows a dedication to improving government, he said.
"She asked me to endorse her, and I did," he said. [FJ]

The Kildee duo, both inspired
by such idols as John. F. Kennedy, have differed in opinions before.
A simmering family division.[trb]

But both Kildees endorsed Wesley Clark in the Democratic primary four years ago. [FJ]

"He's been working on my
campaigns since he was just a
child, and we're very good friends," Dale Kildee said of his nephew. "Generally, we've ended up supporting the same candidates because we share basically the same political philosophy.
"But we're not political clones." [FJ]

Dan is taller, better looking and smarter.[trb]

The competition between Clinton and Obama, who have traded sometimes harsh attacks throughout the race, has remained heated.[FJ]

Right![trb]

But for the Kildees, it's just a friendly difference of opinion. [FJ]
"I don't disagree with his choice
at all. I just came to a different
conclusion," Dan Kildee said. "He
and I have mutual respect and
admiration for each other... . He's the reason I entered politics in the first place." [FJ]

Lets not offend any body but let the wars begin. I am siding with Dan. Let there be a new day and a new leader. There will be a Kildee on the winning side as opposed to Flints last Mayorial race. [trb]

"Are these the same experts who said she'd lose New Hampshire by double-digits? People have counted Hillary Clinton out time and again this campaign and she's still standing strong," said Clinton spokesman Blake Zeff.[DN]

For the best display of the unconventional racial dynamic, look at Obama's appearance in Kansas, said Christopher Malone, a Pace University political scientist: "He goes to the hometown of his grandfather on his mother's side and points to a cousin in the audience, a 72-year-old woman who is as white as any other Kansan. Could you imagine him accepting the nomination and standing there and bringing up his family members, Kenyans and white Americans, and saying I am America, this is America? It really seems like a perfect storm here."[SFG]

I am throwing in with the Dead Rabbits.[trb]

–end--

Posted here by Terry Bankert
http://attorneybankert.com/

FACEBOOK INVITATION Join Facebook and become a FRIEND . I am creating a Flint area issues social/political/ community issues discussion group

----where did this stuff come from---

[FJ]
THE FLINT JOURNAL FIRST EDITIONSaturday, February 16, 2008
By Beata Mostafavibmostafavi@flintjournal.com • 810.766.6210
FLINT -

[DN]
The Dailey News
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/02/17/2008-02-17_exjuggernaut_hillary_clinton_tanking_pro-2.html

[SFH]
SFGate.com
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/17/MNLTV1N04.DTL&type=politics


[Freep]
Freep.com
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/NEWS15/802170638

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CONGRESS GIVES TO YOU ECONOMIC REPARATION FOR THEIR MESSING UP THE ECONOMY!

_______________________
GOOD MORNING FLINT !
______________________
Date 2/15/08
By Terry Bankert
____
Posted full article first to Flint Talk THEN summarized, for discussion, at:
http://flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?p=24889#24889

Full article at Google blog Good Morning Flint, http://goodmorningflint.blogspot.com/ with citations.(AT THE VERY BOTTOM OF THIS POST) also posted to MLIVE Flint JOURNAL Flint Community blogs, Flint Citizen, Craigs list, Face Book, My Space and . Please circulate and post freely. Do you have suggestions for other sites to post to. Recent BANKERT VLOGG on :Mediation #1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnHdn-Ilu0E ______________________

CONGRESS SAYS "WE MESSED UP", HERES SOME MONEY ....$1,200 !

...the $168 billion stimulus package enacted this week will help buttress the economy. Tax rebate checks will be sent to more than 130 million Americans beginning in May, he said. The measure also includes investment incentives for businesses.[B]

...checks ranging from $300 to $1,200 were sent out[ap]

OUR ECONOMY IS DETERIORATED?

Using words like "sluggish" and "deteriorated," Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke gave a starkly pessimistic assessment of the nation's economy on Thursday and signaled that the Fed will cut interest rate cuts further if needed to combat the adverse effects of a prolonged housing slump and a severe credit crisis. [AP]

WORST HOUSING SLUMP IN 25 YEARS

The worst housing slump in a quarter century has combined with lower stock prices and elevated inflation to sap household wealth. [B]

AVOIDING FULL BLOWN RECESSION

``We can't be sure because of the problems in the credit markets,'' he said, estimating the chance of a recession at ``close to 50-50.'' [B]

THERE ARE GLIMMERS OF HOPE

"Yesterday's retail sales report failed to confirm a recession-like collapse in consumer spending, [and] equity markets have stabilized since the Martin Luther King Day tumult," they said. [MW]
Others, however, interpreted Bernanke's stance as a little less dovish than he had been previously[AFP].

WE MUST HELP AMERICANS CAUGHT UP IN MORTGAGE FORECLOSURE

...that the economy could still avert a full-blown recession, but Democrats said they believed the government should be doing much more to help millions of Americans cope with a threatened tidal wave of mortgage foreclosures.[AP]

OUR NATION LOST 17,000 JOBS IN JANUARY

With a Republican President at the helm"The economy lost 17,000 jobs in January, the first drop in more than four years. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index has fallen three consecutive months, and is down 7.3 percent so far this year. Residential investment subtracted 1.2 percentage point from growth last quarter, the eighth straight decline, according to government statistics." [B]

HERES THE GOOD NEWS

Further decreases in homebuilding and related activities, consumers spending less due to rising unemployment, declining home values and higher energy prices, and maybe higher inflation due to increased food and energy costs. He also says more-expensive and less-available credit is "likely to continue to be a source of restraint on economic growth[f]

DOW DOWN

On Wall Street, Bernanke's comments pushed stocks lower. The Dow Jones industrials closed down 175.26 points at 12,376.98.[AP]

"the outlook for the economy has worsened in recent months, and the downside risks to growth have increased."[CNN]

Private economists said they viewed Bernanke's sober assessment as a clear signal that the Fed, which cut interest rates by 1.25 percentage points in two moves in January, is prepared to cut rates further.[AP]

The dollar stayed weak on Friday after a pledge by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke to act as needed to support economic growth and tackle downside risks fueled expectations for another big cut in interest rates next month.[GU]

While saying that housing represented the greatest threat to the economy, ... he did not believe the economy would fall into a recession. He said the administration was working now to make ensure the government checks ranging from $300 to $1,200 were sent out without delay starting in May.[AP]

RECESSION ITS GONNA HAPPEN ECONOMIST SAY ITS TOO LATE!

That stimulus package, which Congress passed last week, is expected to give the economy a sizable jolt in the second half of this year although many economists believe it will be too late to keep the economy from recording two consecutive quarters of negative economic output, the classic definition of a recession.[AP]

HOW MUCH MONEY WILL WE GET?

... he continued to look for good ideas but at the moment did not see the need to do any more than such current efforts as encouraging the mortgage industry to freeze rates on some subprime mortgages for five years and offering a 30-day reprieve on foreclosures for homeowners seriously behind on their payments to give them time to try to work out a loan modification with their lenders.[AP]

But a group of Senate Democrats ... announced outside of the hearing that they were introducing a second stimulus measure that would have a variety of initiatives to help stem foreclosures including providing $4 billion in new community development grants to purchase and rehabilitate foreclosed properties.[AP]

Here's the problem: Bernanke and Paulson insist that the economy will stave off a recession, while at the same time admitting that the extent of the damage wrought by the mortgage meltdown and credit crunch are far from known.[F]

HOUSING CRISIS GOT US THERE

"If we really want to tackle the economic problems the country is facing, we must address the housing crisis that got us here," said Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., a supporter of the new stimulus measures.[AP]

HOMEOWNER PRESERVATION CORP

Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd, D-Conn., told reporters after the hearing that he planned to explore a proposal to create a Homeownership Preservation Corp. that would buy mortgages at steep discounts from mortgage firms and banks and then rework the loans based on the reduced value of the properties, making the payments more manageable.[AP]

Dodd .... "crisis of confidence." [AP]

Stocks sold off on Bernanke's comments, soaring oil prices and more bad news from financials. The Nasdaq fell 1.7%, the Dow 1.4% and the S&P 500 1.3%[CNN]

THE PRESIDENT WAS SNOOZING NOW WE ARE A LOSING

Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., criticized policymakers for what he believed was a too slow response to the housing crisis. "We count on those at the top ... to sound an alarm," during a crisis, he said. Instead, "what we got was a snooze button ... we've been behind the curve." [AP]

WE BE HELPING SAYS THE ADMINISTRATION!

Paulson said that in the final three months of last year, more than 470,000 homeowners got help from companies servicing their mortgages and almost 30 percent of those received a loan modification. He insisted the administration was working hard to help, and called the problems facing some struggling homeowners "heartrending." [AP]

Translation: The ill effects of bad debt are still working their way through the country's economic veins, and no easy remedies are available.[F]
---end article---

Posted here by
Terry Bankert http://attorneybankert.com/
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—where did this stuff come from---
[AP]
Associated Press
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080214/ap_on_bi_ge/congress_recession_threat;_ylt=An28Hqycb4Gp41kPuYHSr5ms0NUE
[B]
Bloomberg.com
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=arzVoL7HpKAw&refer=home

[CNN]
CNN.Money
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/newstex/IBD-0001-23040003.htm

[GU]
Guardian Unlimited
http://www.guardian.co.uk/feedarticle?id=7311458

[F]
Forbes
http://www.forbes.com/business/2008/02/14/bernanke-paulson-cox-biz-washington-cx_bw_0214congress.html

[AFP]
AFP
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iRsAv9ZW1UiHfLhK6gtngefQ1QfA

[TRB]
Comments of Terry Bankert
http://attorneybankert.com/

[MW]
Market Watch
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/treasurys-mixed-after-bernanke-testimony/story.aspx?guid=%7B96AAF95B-A947-4EBB-AA8F-11A7F41FF9F2%7D

#

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