When do we go too far?

untanglingwebs schreef:
Terry- read the comments again.

The cougar remarks were allegedly made throught the university rate the professor blog. Most comments were news stories, etc.

The blame lies with Kettering for allowing such posts and not with Flinttalk. Yes people slammed her but there were no slanderous or libelous remarks.

If Kettering was pushing her for that position, someone should question why. Were they trying to get rid of her? The ratings made have influenced that position.

Were they trying to influence political decisions in their favor? Possibly, but I don't see the DDA as the vehicle for that. Why not the Convention and Visitors Bureau? Her credentials in planning and organizing events would appear to make her better suited for that position rather than the DDA. Word is they may push Preston out too.

We are independent posters using space owned by another to post. There are a loose set of rules and an evolving culture to guide us. Some posters are identifiable because they use their given name , such as myself, some us screen names.

For those that choose our given names when the muck flies our reputations have a possibility of being affected. Because of my state licensing my exposure is even greater. I am a family law practitioner, you know more about libel than I do.

But when my internal alert goes off I listen to it. Was a line crossed by the comments directed at Ms. Wilson? Are there any lines? After the Clinton era there may no ,longer be any lines. We then are to personal choice.

My choice is to affect in my small way public policy debate in Flint MI.,

My last political stand if you will. My internal alert says the discussion about Ms. Wilson went too far. Did it? When the Cougar stuff began I ignored it I thought it was Ketterings mascot.

When the connection with Walling to Harris to Wilson came up the the linkage sounded logical. Comments on the professional relationships between Wilson and Harris were legitimate? Remember there are no rules here. Several poster then just laid the line of logic out in the open. That’s done here all the time.

Then what was my problem? It offended my sense of fairness.

My problem?

When you seek public office or appointment in this country the public has a right to know. But how far into your personal life does this right go? It was the post of 1-6-2010 that went too far. When we find ourselves in this environment and comments of others go too far what recourse. Distance your self, comment on it consider leaving the forum. I have done all three.

I think the Flint Talk forum has added important information to the general public policy debate answering the question "Who is in charge of this city, downtown business interests, the mayor, the council, or the voters in the neighborhoods? The Cougar talk since it originated at Kettering is fair game. Where do I think a line was crossed.

A review of the thread “Larry Ford Fired.” Was it appropriate to talk of speculation of very personal relationships with big money donors to secure a job. Of course it is if you use the national media as a standard.[ Post of untangling the web on 1-6-2010.]

[Flint City Mole] then lays it out in post 1-6-2010. This was done as a question not a statement of fact.

[pauchuco] Raised the ethical/ question in post 1-11-2010.

Andi03 and “back again” joined in posts 1-11-2020 6 pm

In summary nothing was done wrong here.

The focus on the personal relationship was the real reason or the contrived excuse for the resignation.

This is a real power struggle. Chittle has started an anti ford face book to counter the pro-ford face book. Joel , the UofM downtown darling has weighed in supporting Walling. Pro Walling anti us posted are stalking MLIVE.

Phil is throwing elbows and wants to take some people out, real bad.

Ford may still be removed, some say Preston may be next, I bet Walling is even considering tearing down the DDA.

Transparency and accountability are objectives we should all seek. It is some times messy, but then so is democracy.
http://flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?p=51520#51520

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DDA APPOINTMENT

JOEL RASH POST ON MLIVE THE FOLLOWING FOLLOWED BY A DISCUSSION OF THE DDA POSITITION WITHDRAWAL BY MS.WILSON
JOELRASH SAID:Terry, you suggest the council 'follow the charter' and block the nomination. What provision of the charter is being violated here? It seems that the candidate you supported in the past, Mayor Williamson, was the one who violated the charter by making up new titles (CEO and COO) and appointing people without council or DDA Board consent.
First I will RE POST what I wrote.
January 07, 2010, 5:38AM
No its is not Go Dayne.
Mr. Mayor you have made a mistake. Mr. Ford will be the best possible choice to head the DDA. The Council will be correct to block this appointment. The era of this community believing every word you utter has ended. Your process of governing demonstrates that your administration is just politics as usual. We are tired of this. Follow the charter, build coalitions of support and lead. You may be too young to know the rich history of community service that Larry Ford has given this community. He has worked in the brackground just getting the job done. I am a downtown business person and I want Larry Ford to head the DDA. I have been on the DDA and you must work with the board to accomplish your vision. I suggest the council block the appointment of Wislon. Its their job. You need to be sent back to the drawing board and given a time out.

January 07, 2010, 6:18AM
It is also clear that the Flint City Council representing all of us must approve this decision. They should listen to us and we say KEEP LARRY FORD. The DDA a public body subject to the freedom of information act and the open meeting act has a mission to develop downtown. Downtown interest working privately behind closed doors have manipulated resource allocation to themselves. Their initiatives that are risky like the Parking ramp are left with the DDA. How much else have the saddled us with. We need accountability through the DDA to protect our tax dollars. An inexperienced cheer leader cannot match the ability of larry Ford to protect our interests.
January 07, 2010, 10:35AM
OLDEASTSIDE SAID "Terry, I am beginning to believe that you are part of the "Old Boys Network" and that you need to endorse moves that keep you business."
I am 58 and have had several political appointments. The Ombudsman experience took me outside the net work, I chose to to stay out side. On this case Larry Ford is a friend and I respect the opinion of Inez Brown plus I was a member of the DDA as City Clerk and have that knowledge on how it is supposed to work. As to keeping me in business ?I am a downtown Flint Divorce Attorney located across the street from the Court house. Thank You for bringing up my business but the Good Old Boys Network would be too concerned for their pensions to seek a divorce. The DDA has a mission that Larry Ford is bringing back to life. But thats my opinion, you have yours. I like this Mayor, we do not have to agree all the time, none of us are perfect.
RASH SAID:you suggest the council 'follow the charter' and block the nomination. What provision of the charter is being violated here?
BANKERT: I did not say the Mayor Violated the Charter on MLIVE
RASH SAID:It seems that the candidate you supported in the past, Mayor Williamson, was the one who violated the charter by making up new titles (CEO and COO) and appointing people without council or DDA Board consent.
BANKERT: I supported Mayor Walling openly in the last election and still do today. We just disagree on the DDA issue. Many people supported Williamson at one time or another in the past. I was one. The Mayor currently has on staff in high position A PERSON that at one time was on Don Williamsons Advisory committee. Be careful where you through that rock.
BANKERT: The community must insists that the Flint City Council and Flint Mayor and all of the multiple member bodies follow State Law Code and case law, Attorney General Opinion, City Charter , Promulgated rule and procedures in that order. This commitment will protect us all.
Now as to Ms. Wilson resignation letter. Yes I did call her a cheer leader, meaning to young and inexperienced for the job to lead the DDA. The DDA is an independent Multiple Member body. The very fact that the Mayor has to bring the nominees name to council demonstrate it is not the Mayor appointment alone.
But others posting comments anonymously did "smear" unfairly. For that I apologize to her. I did not but it was happening around me and I should have spoke out against it. With that said,having gone through A SIMILAR very trying appointment process a half dozen times the old adage applies "If you cannot take the heat stay out of the kitchen".
The Downtown Business need the involvement of Kettering University and the University of Michigan, Uptown Reinvestment and the Mott Foundation in the affairs of our City. Who ever the DDA Director is will have to work with these entities.
Again to Ms Wilson you were treated unfairly, hopefully not by me, for that inaction on my part I apologize. I do not apologize for advocating the appointment of larry Ford as the permanent DDA Director.
Posted here by
Terry R. Bankert

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Cold enough fer ya

COLD IS A RELATIVE THING. TOUGHNESS COUNTS! From: http://www.bloggingformichigan.com/

65 above zero: Floridians turn on the heat. People in Michigan plant gardens.

60 above zero: Californians shiver uncontrollably. People in Michigan sunbathe.

50 above zero: Italian & English cars won't start. People in Michigan drive with the windows down..

40 above zero: Georgians don coats, thermal underwear, gloves, wool hats. People in Michigan throw on a flannel shirt.

35 above zero: New York landlords finally turn up the heat. People in Michigan have the last cookout before it gets cold.

20 above zero: People in Miami all die. Michiganders close the windows.

Zero: Californians fly away to Mexico. People in Michigan get out their winter coats.


10 below zero: Hollywood disintegrates. The Girl Scouts in Michigan are selling cookies door to door.

20 below zero: Washington DC runs out of hot air. People in Michigan let the dogs sleep indoors.

30 below zero: Santa Claus abandons the North Pole. Michiganders get upset because they can't start the Snowmobile.

40 below zero: ALL atomic motion stops. People in Michigan start saying...'Cold enough fer ya?'

50 below zero: Hell freezes over. Lions win the Super Bowl

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